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Showing posts with label biotech. Show all posts
Showing posts with label biotech. Show all posts

Monday, August 1, 2016

The GMO Debate: One Student’s Experience of Pro-GMO Propaganda at Cornell University (Re-Post From Independent Science News))


Thanks to Stephanie Seneff for the article.

The GMO Debate: One Student’s Experience of Pro-GMO Propaganda at Cornell University

My name is Robert, and I am a Cornell University undergraduate student. However, I’m not sure if I want to be one any more. Allow me to explain.

Cornell, as an institution, appears to be complicit in a shocking amount of ecologically destructive, academically unethical, and scientifically deceitful behavior. Perhaps the most potent example is Cornell’s deep ties to industrial GMO agriculture, and the affiliated corporations such as Monsanto. I’d like to share how I became aware of this troubling state of affairs.
Throughout my secondary education, I’ve always had a passion for science. In particular, physics and mathematics captured my fascination. My sophomore AP physics teacher, Mr. Jones, became my main source of motivation to succeed. He convinced us students that our generation was crucial to repairing humanity’s relationship to science, and how we would play key roles in solving immense global issues, such as climate change. Thank you Mr. Jones! Without your vision, I would have never had the chance to attend such an amazing university.
Robert Schooler Cornell
ROBERT SCHOOLER CORNELL
I came to Cornell as a freshman, deeply unaware of our current GMO agriculture paradigm, and my university’s connection to it. After two years of school, however, I was reluctant to continue traditional study. I never felt quite at ease, jumping through hoops, taking classes and tests that didn’t inspire me, in exchange for a piece of paper (degree) that somehow magically granted me a superior life. I know many undergraduates fit right in with the university education model, and that’s fantastic. I certainly didn’t, and my mental and physical health began to suffer as a result. I was left with no choice but to take a leave of absence, and pursue another path.
Instead, I began to self-study nutrition out of pure necessity. Luckily, I found Cornell Professor Emeritus T. Colin Campbell’s legendary epidemiological research on nutrition and human disease. His evidence was so clear that I quickly transitioned to a plant-based diet. This personal dietary shift had profound benefits, dispelled my depression, and led me to a deep fascination with the precursor to nutrition:agriculture. I became particularly interested in agroecology. I was astonished to learn that there existed alternatives to chemical-intensive, corporate-controlled models of agriculture, and that they were far safer, more effective, and more sustainable. During my time away from Cornell, I participated in three unique seasons of agroecological crop production, with incredible results. I am immensely grateful for these experiences.
It’s impossible to study and practice agroecology without becoming deeply aware of the other end of the spectrum: the genetic modification of our food supply, ruled by giant agribusiness corporations.
Currently, the vast majority of US commodity crops (corn, soy, alfalfa, sugar beet) are genetically engineered to either withstand Roundup herbicide or produce Bt toxin pesticide. These “technologies” are ecologically damaging and unsafe.The majority of these crops go to feed animals in factory farms. The remainder generally gets converted into corn syrup, white sugar, vegetable oil, or biofuels — you know,good stuff! This combined approach of growing GMO commodity monoculture crops, and feeding them to factory-farmed livestock, is one of the most ecologically destructive forces our planet has ever seen. It’s also a leading contributor to climate change. In fact, some experts believe it to be the leading cause.
As Professor T. Colin Campbell will tell you, the foods that come from this system (animal products and processed foods) are responsible for causing the vast majority of chronic disease. That’s a story for another day.
Cornell’s GMO Propaganda Campaign
I came back to Cornell a changed person, with a drastically different perspective. I was in for quite a shock, however: I sat in on a course entitled “The GMO Debate”. I was expecting members of an intellectual community coming together, with proponents and critics of GMO food each giving the best verified evidence they had to support their cause. Given all that I had learned about GMO agriculture, I was excited to participate for the “GMO skeptic” side.
The GMO Debate course, which ran in the fall of 2015, was a blatant display of unscientific propaganda in an academic setting. There were a total of 4 active professors in the course, and several guest speakers. They took turns each session defending industrial agriculture and biotechnology with exactly zero critical examination of GMOs. In spite of the course’s name, there was a complete lack of actual “debate”. Here are some of the more memorable claims I heard that fall semester:
  • GMO food is necessary to feed the world
  • there is no instance of harm from agricultural GMOs
  • glyphosate, the main ingredient in Roundup, is safer than coffee and table salt
  • if you believe in science, you must believe in GMO technology
  • the science of genetic engineering is well understood
  • “what off-target effects?” … when asked about the proven biochemical risks of GE technology
  • Vitamin A rice is curing children of Vitamin A deficiency (even though the IRRI, the research institute responsible for rolling it out, says it won’t be ready for some years: http://goo.gl/mHcsoJ)
  • Current pesticides and herbicides don’t pose an ecological or human health risk
  • Bt is an organic pesticide, therefore Bt GMO crops are safe and pose no additional risk
  • Bt crops work just fine — but we are now engineeringinsects as a complementary technology — to make the Bt work better
  • “Are you scared of GMO insects? Because you shouldn’t be.”
  • GMO crops are the most rigorously tested crops in the history of food
  • “If [renowned environmentalist] Rachel Carson were alive today, she would be pro-GMO”
It gets better. During the semester, emails were released following a Freedom of Information Act request, showing that all four of the professors in the class, as well as several guest speakers, the head of Cornell’s pro-GMO group “Alliance for Science, and the Dean of the College of Arts and Life Sciences were all copied in on emails withMonsanto. This was part of a much larger circle of academics promoting GMO crops on behalf of the biotech industry. Jonathan Latham PhD, virologist and editor ofindependentsciencenews.org, documented this in an article titled The Puppetmasters of Academia. I highly recommend giving it a read, for further context.
Perhaps saddest of all was the inclusion of several visiting African agriculture-academics in the course. They were brought here by the “Cornell Alliance for Science”. This organization was completely funded by a $5.6 million grant from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, and appears to espouse only pro-GMO rhetoric. For those of you who are unaware, Bill Gates is a proponent of using agricultural biotechnology in Africa, India, and other developing regions. So in essence, a group of African representatives got indoctrinated into the industrial and GMO agriculture framework, and were sent home to disseminate this information … after all, who could question the expertise of an Ivy League powerhouse such as Cornell?
I then learned of Cornell’s deep historic ties to the biotech industry, which explained what I witnessed in the “GMO Debate” course. Notable examples include the invention of both the controversial bovine growth hormone, and the particle bombardment (“gene gun”) method of creating GMO crops. Both of these cases are connected to Monsanto.
To say the least, I was completely stunned.
What I’m going to do about all of this
You didn’t think I was just going to complain about a pro-GMO, industry-sponsored Cornell all day, did you? Good, because I have come up with a plan to create actual, lasting change on campus.
A student-led, expert-backed, evidence-based GMO course
I have decided to host an independent course on the current GMO paradigm, in response to Cornell’s course. It will be held on campus, but will have zero influence from Cornell or any biotech organization. Every Wednesday evening, from September 7th to November 16, we will host a lecture. This lecture series is completely free, open to the entire Cornell community and broader public, and will be published online (for free, forever) at my project, gmowtf.com.
There will be several experts and scientists coming in to lecture for this courseFrances Moore Lappé, of “Diet for a Small Planet” and “World Hunger: 10 Myths” fame, will be introducing the course on September 7, via video presentation. She will be speaking on how GMO agriculture is unnecessary to end world hunger.
Steven Druker is a public interest attorney and author of the powerful book “Altered Genes, Twisted Truth: How the Venture to Genetically Engineer Our Food Has Subverted Science, Corrupted Government, and Systematically Deceived the Public”, which Jane Goodall (in her foreword) hails as “one of the most important books in the last 50 years”. He will be giving two lectures that elaborate on the themes in the book’s subtitle and demonstrate that the GMO venture has been chronically and crucially dependent on deception, and could not survive without it.
Jonathan Latham PhD will be giving two lectures, on the dangers of Roundup Ready and Bt crops, respectively. He will also be participating in our special October 5 debate, representing the anti-GMO panel, alongside Michael Hansen PhD, a senior scientist for the Consumers Union. Jonathan has direct experience genetically modifying organisms, so his expertise is guaranteed.
Allison Wilson PhD is a geneticist and editor/science director of the Bioscience Resource Project. She will be giving a lecture on how GMOs are actually created, to dispel any industry myths of precision, accuracy, or deep genetic understanding.
Belinda Martineau PhD is a geneticist with an interesting history — she was on the team of genetic engineers that created the first commercial GM food crop, the Flavr Savr Tomato. She authored a book on her experience, titled “First Fruit: The Creation of the Flavr Savr Tomato and the Birth of Biotech Foods”. Her lecture will be a historical and personal account of the science, regulation, and commercialization of genetically engineered foods, effectively giving context for today’s GMO paradigm.
My personal scientific hero, T. Colin Campbell, who started me on this whole journey years ago, will not be speaking on GMOs per se … but will address some critically important, related topics: academic freedom and scientific integrity. He began his Cornell career over half a century ago, and has “seen it all”. He has fascinating anecdotes that will illuminate these campus-wide issues beautifully.
Jane Goodall, if you’re reading this, you are personally invited to take time out of your busy schedule to come and give the final capstone lecture. I know how passionate you are about saving our species, our planet, and all of its beautiful inhabitants. Your wise presence in this project would take it to the next level. Alternatively, please consider a short video interview. This offer stands indefinitely. Same for youVandana Shiva!
All in all, our independent GMO lecture series will focus onreal threats and real solutions to our current ecological crisis … and perhaps most importantly, will feature 100% less Monsanto influence than Cornell’s course! Sounds good to me.
Taking it further
I’m on my second leave of absence from Cornell to work on this project, and due to my experiences, I have somewhat given up on a Cornell degree … not that I was ever intensely focused on attaining one. This GMO course is by far the most important thing I can do with my Cornell “career”. However, it is just the beginning of my plan.
Remember the $5.6 million Bill Gates gave Cornell through his foundation, to push the pro-GMO propaganda? Well, to coincide with our course, we’re launching an initiative to raise the same amount of money or more to sponsor more appropriate forms of agriculture, educational outreach, and activism. Go to gmowtf.com for more information, but in essence, this would finance:
  • Continued grassroots educational activism at Cornell, and similar programs in other compromised universities (UC Davis and Berkeley, University of Florida, etc.) across the country.
  • A plant-based, NON-GMO independent dining hall for Cornell students. It would source as close to 100% organic and local food as possible. Ideally, it would be cheaper than Cornell’s plan (plant-based eaters won’t subsidize expensive meat and dairy for omnivorous eaters).
  • gmowtf.com as a permanent, free, independent, constantly updated resource for GMO science, policy, news, etc. … also the GMO course would remain online
  • My dream: a research farm focused on rigorous analysis of agroecological practices. There is an infinitum of fascinatingly effective agroecological techniques that are underrepresented in the scientific community (in favor of faddist, ineffective GMO “technology”).
  • Completely paying off student debt for a group of 10-15 undergraduates who are willing to help spread this message to the Cornell community.
Mr. Gates, if you truly care about feeding the world in a safe and sustainable manner, and if you are truly dedicated to science and to the kind of open, fact-based discourse on which it depends, I implore you to learn the important facts about which you have apparently been misinformed — and which are being systematically misrepresented by the Cornell organization you are funding. You can easily gain illumination by reading Altered Genes, Twisted Truth” by Steven Druker, one of the key contributors to our independent GMO course. You might find Chapter 11, on the ramifications and risks of altering complex information systems, of particular interest. You are, after all, the world’s most famous software developer!
As the chapter demonstrates, biotechnicians are significantly altering the most complex yet least understood group of information systems on earth — the ones that undergird the development and function of living organisms. Yet, they fail to implement the kind of safeguards that software engineers have learned are imperative when making even minor revisions to human-made systems. Can this be legitimately called science-based engineering?
Bill, feel free to reach out to any of the experts in our course, and don’t be hesitant to update your views on GMO agriculture in light of new understanding. A genuine scientist lives by this principle.
I Invite you all to go to gmowtf.com and explore my proposals more. Please bear with the construction of the site in the coming weeks, in preparation for our amazing GMO course!
We live in somewhat of a scientific dark age. Our universities have become extensions of corporate power, at the cost of our health, livelihoods, and ecology. This has to stop, yesterday. We cannot afford to spread lies to our undergraduate students. Cornell, please reconsider your ways. Until you do, I will be doing everything in my power to counter your industry GMO propaganda efforts with the facts.
With love,
Robert Schooler
contact (at) gmowtf.com
 I hope you all do go there.

We can win this battle. Starve the monster, and it DIES.

Wednesday, February 3, 2016

How To Bitch-Slap A Moron

I posted at the end of yesterday's blog posting that I would be defending the honor of Professor Stephanie Seneff because of a remark made on a Facebook posting by an ex-classmate (Yes, I do realize the irony of defending someone, yet having the word "bitch" in the title).

 
This took place on a public page, so I feel comfortable in reposting this here, in its entirety. The only changes made were to protect the stupid (and my fellow classmates who aren't tight-assed martinets). I will note my new comments post-"debate" with brackets and italicizes text; otherwise, this is virtually the exact posting. The comments, however, are not linear. I can't really do anything about that at the moment, but if enough of you want to see the posting with the nestling as it appeared, I'm willing to offer the link.

 
Of course, Professor Seneff has absolutely nothing at all to do with this. I invoked her name, due to her positing that glyphosate has a relationship in causing autism. You will see that at one point, he pretends to be posting his own beliefs, but the breaks in the texts would indicate that he was obtaining talking points from elsewhere. Any new commentary (to be separated with brackets and the aforementioned italicized text) will serve only to highlight such moments...and so, without further ado, enjoy, dear readers:

 
Vincent Nunes
The Science Guy sold his soul to Monsanto.
January 31 at 11:18pm
Was Bill Nye Paid by Monsanto to Change His Mind on
GMOs?
On Neil DeGrasse Tyson's radio show StarTalk, Bill Nye the Science Guy answers
his fans' burning questions about his GMO flip-flop and if Monsanto paid him to
ECOWATCH.COM
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Ex-Classmate #1 likes this.
Clueless Moron C'mon, Vince, quit with the delusional conspiracy theories. Come back to the real world. You were here once. We had fun.
Unlike · Reply · 1 · January 31 at 11:20pm
Vincent Nunes We can agree to disagree. I don't want FrankenFoods... you enjoy.
I don't suffer from delusions. I've done the research. I've been in email correspondence with Professor Stephanie Seneff from MIT. Call her delusional, if you dare.
Like · Reply · January 31 at 11:41pm
Hide 18 Replies
Clueless Moron Easily. She's delusional. She's also a computer scientist who has used completely nonsensical methods to claim that vaccines cause autism, glyphosate causes cancer, and who knows what else. She's a nutjob. A complete whackadoodle.
Like · Reply · Yesterday at 1:36am
Vincent Nunes Can I quote you?
Like · Reply · Yesterday at 8:27pm
Clueless Moron As long as you don't send your nutjob friends after me, sure.
Like · Reply · 23 hrs
Vincent Nunes Ah, the name calling. I don't do that. Some of my nutjob friends are yours, as well.
Like · Reply · 23 hrs
Vincent Nunes I got one for you. Would you drink 8 ounces of Roundup?
Like · Reply · 23 hrs
Clueless Moron Would you drink 8 ounces of Neem Oil? If I was forced to drink one of those pesticides , I'd choose Roundup. Every time.
Like · Reply · 23 hrs
Ex-Classmate #2 Group hug anyone?
Unlike · Reply · 2 · 23 hrs
Vincent Nunes Trad itional Ayurvedic uses of neem include the
treatment of acne, fever, leprosy, malaria, ophthalmia and
tuberculosis. Various folk remedies for neem include use as an
anthelmintic, antifeedant, antiseptic, diuretic, emmenagogue,
contraceptive, febrifuge, parasiticide, pediculocide and insecticide. It
has been used in traditional medicine for the treatment of tetanus,
urticaria, eczema, scrofula and erysipelas. Traditional routes of
administration of neem extracts included oral, vaginal and topical use.
Neem oil has an extensive history of human use in India and
surrounding regions for a variety of therapeutic purposes. Puri (1999)
has given an account of traditional uses and therapeutic indications
and pharmacological studies of this oil, in his book on neem.[3]
Formulations made of neem oil also find wide usage as a biopesticide
for organic farming, as it repels a wide variety of pests including the
mealy bug, beet armyworm, aphids, the cabbage worm, thrips,
whiteflies, mites, fungus gnats, beetles, moth larvae, mushroom flies,
leafminers, caterpillars, locust, nematodes and the Japanese beetle.
Neem oil is not known to be harmful to mammals, birds, earthworms
or some beneficial insects such as butterflies, honeybees and
ladybirds (ladybugs in US English) if it is not concentrated directly into
their area of habitat or on their food source. It can be used as a
household pesticide for ant, bedbug, cockroach, housefly, sand fly,
snail, termite and mosquitoes both as repellent and larvicide.[3]
Neem oil also controls black spot, powdery mildew, anthracnose and
rust fungi.
Neem seed oil has also been found to prevent implantation and may
even have an abortifacient effect similar to pennyroyal, juniper
berries, wild ginger, myrrh and angelica. The effects were seen as
many as ten days after fertilization in rats though it was most effective
at no more than three days. (Sinha, et al., 1984)[not specific enough
to verify]; (Lal et al., 1985)[not specific enough to verify]. In a study
on rats, neem oil was given orally eight to ten days after implantation
of the fetus on the uterine wall. In all cases, by day 15, the embryos
were all completely resorbed by the body. The animals regained
fertility on the next cycle showing no physical problems. Detailed
study of the rats revealed increased levels of gamma interferon in the
uterus. The neem oil enhanced the local immune response in the
uterus.(Mukherjee, 1996)[4][not specific enough to verify] Post coital
use of neem oil as birth control does not appear to work by hormonal
changes but produces changes in the organs that make pregnancy
no longer viable (Tewari, 1989)[not specific enough to verify]
(Bardham, 1991)[not specific enough to verify].
Neem seed oil has also been used as a renewable source for the
preparation of polymeric coatings. It has been converted into various
polymeric resins, including polyesteramides and polyetheramides.
These resins may be utilized further for preparation of polyurethane
coatings.[5][6][7]
In the UK, pesticides that contain Azadirachtin and/or neem oil are
banned. [8]
Toxicity[edit]
Studies done when Azadirachtin (the primary active pesticidal
ingredient in neem oil) was approved as a pesticide, showed that
when neem leaves were fed to male albino rats for 11 weeks, 100%
(reversible) infertility resulted.[9]
Neem oil and other neem products, such as neem leaves and neem
tea, should not be consumed by pregnant women, women trying to
conceive, or children.[10]
There is some evidence that internal medicinal use of neem oil, may
be associated with liver damage in children.[11
Like · Reply · 16 hrs
Vincent Nunes Clueless Moron, I would appreciate if you didn't send any of your maniacs. Thanks.
Like · Reply · 16 hrs
Clueless Moron Sorry, but the copy/paste from Wikipedia doesn't really say anything related to the topic at hand. Would you be willing to
drink 8 ounces of Neem Oil? If it'll help, I can tell you that your answer should be "no". Neem Oil, like many other pesticides approved for organic farming, is more toxic to humans than Roundup. Remember kids, it's all about the dose. And as to my "maniacs", my "side" on this debate has not had a history of threats, scare tactics, and destruction of property (I don't know as to what he is referring to here...I am my own person, and to the best of my recollection, I do not ever recall ever threatening anyone from the outset, attempting scare tactics or destroying any property). But, Vince, this is obviously going nowhere. We've been down this path and you've been constantly unwilling to listen to reason, instead resorting to posting links to crackpot web sites at which any competent scientist rolls their eyes. I think we've annoyed our fellow classmates enough with this pointless back and forth. How about we call this not "agree to disagree", but "agree that you really need to stop getting your information from conspiracy theorists, crackpots, and all around loony bins"? No? Ah well, it was worth a try. Let's just call it over and done with.
Like · Reply · 12 hrs
Vincent Nunes (Sigh) What I did was to research Neem oil, since I hadn't yet heard of it. I posted some of that info here to save others some time, and to disprove your utterly assholish assertion that I
don't consider alternate viewpoints. Everyone here knows that's not how I work... everyone but you.
YOU are the intolerant one here.
Don't refer to anything I post as "conspiracy theory" again. Everything I post has been researched. I guarantee history will put me in a better light than you.
Of course my answer is no, in response to ingesting pesticide.
What a dick.
Who in their right bloody mind would do such a thing? My point was to point out the inherent danger of ingesting it AT ANY LEVEL.
When did you become a stick up your own ass?
Anyway, Happy Groundhog Day!
Like · Reply · 2 hrs
Clueless Moron Vince, I've read what you posted before. Almost everything that I've seen you post has been some conspiracy theory or another. Do you still think that Sandy Hook was a false flag operation? I can't remember if you were one of those people that believe that nobody actually died there or not, but I remember you claiming some ridiculous conspiracy related to that. And you're still a 9/11 truther, no? And you still think that vaccines cause autism or other medical problems (outside of known possible side effects, of course - CM's comment, not mine). Vince, if you sincerely believe what you post, then you seem to live your life around believing things that are completely contrary to the evidence. So, no history will not put you in a better light.
You were the one who started on the suggestions to drink pesticides, not me. I merely countered your query with one of my own. And everything is safe to ingest at a small enough level. For glyphosate,
that level is higher than things as innocuous as table salt.
(Talk about posting stupid crap)
And yes, I have little tolerance for nutjobs who see conspiracies everywhere. They're some of the people who are holding our society back. I'd ask you when you started believing any claims coming from random mental patients with an internet connection.
(Imagine my level of tolerance for idiots, then)
Like · Reply · 2 hrs
Vincent Nunes I tried to sink the U.S.S. Liberty, too...don't forget.
(The Titanic isn't the only accident in the world)
Like · Reply · 1 · 2 hrs
Ex-Classmate #4This obviously boils down to male albino rat privilege. If neither of you can see this, it's because you have been brainwashed by corporate rat interests.
Keep your feet off the glue traps.
(This was a funny aside regarding "white privilege", just in case it doesn't quite at first correlate to the discussion at hand)
Unlike · Reply · 2 · 1 hr
Ex-Classmate #2 Group hug offer is still on the table....
Unlike · Reply · 1 · 1 hr
Vincent Nunes At this point, it might need to be a reach-around.
Like · Reply · 1 hr
Ex-Classmate #2 Better bring out the gimp, gimp's asleep...
Unlike · Reply · 1 · 1 hr
Vincent Nunes Zed...wakey, wakey!
Like · Reply · 1 · 1 hr
(The above two comments are in reference to Pulp Fiction...but I'm fairly certain I didn't really need to tell you that)
Ex-Classmate #3 Well Bill is in favor of labelling. Why not?
Unlike · Reply · 1 · Yesterday at 12:30am
Vincent Nunes replied · 1 Reply
Vincent Nunes http://www.realfarmacy.com/monsanto-history/
Like · Reply · Remove Preview · 16 hrs
The Secret History of Monsanto You Were
Never Told
REALFARMACY.COM | BY REALFARMACY.COM
Vincent Nunes And just to really bust balls:
https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/.../zika-monsantos.../
Like · Reply · Remove Preview · 2 hrs
Zika? Monsanto’s Roundup associated
with smaller heads
JONRAPPOPORT.WORDPRESS.COM
Ex-Classmate #1 Anyone who doesn't see how evil a company Monsanto is, is blind to the truth. Look at their company leaders and board. It is a revolving door of politicians. They are out to destroy the private farmers and control all farming. I love how their crop spread to one farmers land and then they sued him when it cross contaminated his crop and produced their crop. It's pathetic.
Vince, I agree with you, I don't want frankenfood. And Bill Bye has always been kind of a douche in my opinion, so it is no surprise he has been bought.
Unlike · Reply · 1 · 2 hrs
Hide 16 Replies
Vincent Nunes Percy Schmeiser, to be precise. I have data on crop yields that didn't live up to projections. Dr. Seralini was vindicated in his rat analyses. I'll leave it there for now.
Like · Reply · 1 hr
Ex-Classmate #1 You know how you can tell something is evil or wrong, when both sides of the fence politically can march together against it. I have been to rallies where both republican and democrat, conservative and liberal came together to protest against Monsanto.
(Side note, have you ever watched the show Continuum? They slam them with a company they have named Sonmanto. - Ex-C#1's comment)
Unlike · Reply · 1 · 1 hr
Clueless Moron Oh good lord, more crap. Schmeiser intentionally broke the law (whether or not you think the law is just, that's irrelevant) by specifically planting RoundupReady seed without a license. So, yes,
Monsanto sued a farmer. Because he violated their patent knowingly. It's happened thousands of times around the world. And yet Monsanto is the evil one.
And Seralini was absolutely NOT vindicated in his rat experiment. It was a farce of a study done on rats predisposed to cancer. And then Seralini specifically let the rats develop large painful tumors , which is
cruel and against standard study protocol.
(I guess that's less cruel than simply killing them after 90 days, therefore serving absolutely no purpose whatsoever. Why perform the experiment at all, if one is simply going to attempt to posit that nothing untoward will occur from ingesting GMO foods, when insufficient time has elapsed to actually verify said claim? In addition to this...Seralini LET THE RATS DEVELOP LARGE PAINFUL TUMORS?!? He can do that?!? Why wouldn't he do the same to his tormentors?!?)
Like · Reply · 1 hr
Ex-Classmate #1 I just love to hear a lackey rant.
Unlike · Reply · 1 · 1 hr
Clueless Moron In what way am I a lackey? Are you going to employ the shill gambit now? That's what all anti-science folks resort to when they have no valid arguments (Pot, please meet kettle). If someone actually accepts the thousands of studies (both independent and not) of any of the topic that have been mentioned here, they must be paid to voice that opinion (My checks must be made of those pink superballs).
Ex-Classmate#1, I don't have as much experience with your posts as I do Vince, but so far, you're just rehashing tired old anti-GMO/anti-science rhetoric that's been debunked time and time again.
Like · Reply · 1 hr
Ex-Classmate #1 Anti-Science? So if I believe in science that shows the harmful effects of GMO's, then I am a nut-job and anti-science to you? Interesting. I suppose then that only the reports you believe are valid? I find it interesting that you are so pro-Monsanto and seem to be "educated" in these various cases. I always find it interesting when someone walks lock-step with a corporation. I then wonder what their agenda is.
But what do I know huh? I'm apparently anti-science and therefore some nut-job.
Unlike · Reply · 1 · 1 hr
Vincent Nunes "Anti-Science"...that's rich.
Regarding Percy: It all began in 1998, at which time Schmeiser had grown canola on his farm for 40 years. Like any other traditional farmer, he used his own seeds, saved from the previous harvest. But, like hundreds of other North American farmers, Schmeiser ended up being sued by Monsanto for 'patent infringement.'
More than 320 hectares were found to be contaminated with Roundup Ready canola—the biotech giant's patented canola, genetically engineered to tolerate otherwise lethal doses of glyphosate. The company sought damages totaling $400,000.
Most farmers end up settling, but Schmeiser was angry enough to fight back. In a 1999 interview, Schmeiser stated:
"I never put those plants on my land. The question is, where do Monsanto's rights end and mine begin?"
The case eventually went before the Federal Court of Canada.
Schmeiser in turn accused Monsanto of:
  • Libel, by publicly accusing him of committing illegal acts
  • Trespassing
  • Improperly obtaining samples of his seed from a local seed plant
  • Callous disregard for the environment by introducing genetically
  • modified crops without proper controls and containment
  • Contamination of his crops with unwanted GM plants
He never planted their damn seeds; the pollen drifted onto his crops  and mixed in. The genetic signature came up in his heretofore virgin crops. There's nothing "anti-science" about speaking the truth.
Seralini - now, "anti-science" is testing something for 90 days and then stating that there isn't a need to test further, then killing the rats before they could exhibit any damage to their organs. He simply went beyond the 90 day period.
By the way, it's obvious you're getting your talking points from some stupid-ass pro-FrankenFood crapfest, so hopefully you're done hoisting upon your petard.
Like · Reply · 1 · 1 hr
Clueless Moron  The vast majority of scientific studies and scientists around the world have shown/believe that GMOs are safe.
If you want to believe the very small number of studies/scientists that don't, then yeah, that's anti-science.
I am not pro-Monsanto. I object to many things that they do, but I also see the hypocrisy in folks who call them the devil and yet completely ignore the same behavior in other companies and exaggerate their actions to the point of ridiculousness. I am in no way, shape, or form, in lock-step with any corporation or organization.
(What the hell is he talking about here?!? They should get a pass because some other companies engaged in like behavior doesn't get their feet held to the fire...IN HIS ESTIMATION?!? You will see later that I call him out on his bullshite; this is what Michael Shermer refers to as the "jumping around" argument. It is commonly used when the facts are no longer on your side)
Like · Reply · 1 hr
Clueless Moron Vince, that is most definitely not the story of Schmeiser.
He intentionally and knowingly planted RoundupReady crops. He specifically broke the law.
(LIE!!!)
No, he didn't start the process by planting the initial seeds that "contaminated" his crops (for which Monsanto has never sued), but he sure as hell took advantage of it.
(Yeah...that really worked out well for him, didn't it?)
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Vincent Nunes So this was a hallucination of mine?
"After a decade-long battle, Schmeiser won when, in March 2008, Monsanto settled out of court, agreeing to pay for all cleanup costs.
The agreement also specified that Schmeiser would not be under gag-order, and that Monsanto can be sued for recontamination.
This was a much-needed win not just for Schmeiser, but for farmers everywhere. It set the precedence that farmers may be entitled to reimbursement when their fields are contaminated with unwanted GM crops (as indeed they should!)."
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Vincent Nunes You know, I'm actually trying to watch Thor: The Dark World. Just admit that you have NOTHING. I've an answer for any GMO hot garbage you try to foist upon us here.
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Clueless Moron I don't know what claim you're making about the "hallucination" bit, but yes, Monsanto paid the $660 in cleanup costs from a small claims court settlement (I actually oppose what Monsanto did - making paying for contamination cleanup contingent on a confidentiality agreement) . And before that, Schmeiser had to pay almost $20k in licensing costs and hundreds of thousands in legal fees for losing the lawsuit Monsanto brought against him. This set no precedent. Monsanto already had a program in place to pay for cleanup costs involved in crop contamination. What the small claims court ruling did was kick them in the ass and remind them that requiring a confidentiality agreement is a douchebag move.
(The gymnastics he's attempting to perform here are dizzying)
And you haven't said anything that hasn't been either a copy and paste from a quack site like Mercola, an exaggeration, a lie of omission, or an outright untruth . Actually, those last three pretty much cover everything in the first item.
(Like many of his ilk, he mentions "Mercola" , as if simply by dint of invoking his name, everything that I've stated is utterly without merit...much as if Adolf Hitler mentioning that grass is green invalidates grass being colored green. I also wanted to note that, right here, he admits that my point is NOT MADE UP OUT OF WHOLE CLOTH, but that he "opposes" Monsanto having paid to clean up Schmeiser's farm after he proved that it was indeed pollen drift, and nothing at all to do with him actually planting any Monsanto seeds whatsoever. This is where I beging to throw in my not-so-kind commentary)
Like · Reply · 54 mins
Vincent Nunes Monsanto really appreciates your concern, but they told to tell you to kiss their chapped ass just a little harder. You keep missing the chocolate starfish
You mention Mercola like that in of itself should invalidate anything I should say. That's anti-science. Nothing from you about superweeds, I see.
In the beginning, I posited that we should agree to disagree, but apparently, you need to enforce your worldview upon mine, and I don't take too kindly to that* (*fixed sp). It really has never ended well for anyone who has tried.
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Clueless Moron No, I'm refuting your falsehoods with facts backed by the majority of studies and scientists. That is no worldview.
However, I do think it may be time to agree to part ways. You're still as unwilling to listen to reason as ever and I'm obviously not going to change your mind. Besides, I'm sure the majority of our classmates couldn't give two whits about this discussion.
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Vincent Nunes Thanks...now I can finish watching what's left of Thor: TDW.
And remember...this was all your doing.
Buh bye.
(You can't tell because the nestling of the comments was removed when I saved this dialogue, but this was the actual end of the posting - I'm pleased to report that their hasn't yet been any further response on the matter)
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Ex-Classmate #2 I'm thoroughly enjoying this.
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Write a reply...
Ex-Classmate #3 Or fooled? But as I said, he supports labeling.
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Vincent Nunes By the way, I think it's worth mentioning the former nature of these biotechs - for example, BASF is in the GMO business. Remember what they used to do?
They made videotapes.
I'll trust a farmer over them any day.
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Clueless Moron Funny, the majority of farmers support using GMOs and using Roundup and other synthetic pesticides. Do you trust the majority of farmers?
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Vincent Nunes Those farmers are regretting their choice to go along with the hype. Do you know how many Indian farmers committed suicide because their crops failed?
THEY drank the pesticide so that their families could live on.
But thanks for engaging in a logical fallacy for all to see. Michael Shermer came up with the term, and then was caught employing it at every turn.
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Clueless Moron Christ on a crutch. And here we are with the Indian farmer suicide lie. You REALLY need to stop buying everything that Mercola and others like him are feeding you.
That Indian farmer suicide lie was dreamed up by noted anti-GMO speaker Vandana Shiva. Since I'm just too damned tired to refute all your lies, I'm just going to post this: http://issues.org/30-2/keith/
Like · Reply · 50 mins
(Here, he insists that the Indian farmer suicide is a MYTH)
Vincent Nunes In response, from your article: "As Mr. Blake alludes to here, the more important issue is not GM crops per se but the aggregate affect of ignoring soil health. Natural system based agricultural techniques such as Agroforestry and agroecology, which fundamentally focus on building healthy soil, are the answer to
sustainable food production. Corporate controlled, industrial agriculture, which is mentioned repeatedly but not problematized, is what drives soil degradation whether or not GM crops are the culprit.
Effective policies would look at the Indian suicides systemically, offering programs, services, and market incentives that encourage stewardship of the soil. In this situation, Monsanto’s primary concern is not to feed the world, but to maximize profits. This is why the seeds are patented, and this is why, beyond Monsanto, the ecosystem for financing agriculture is designed for extracting money from rural Indian farmers, as opposed to allowing them to take the necessary time for nurturing soil health. Addressing this issue over the long term will require providing viable pathways to land and soil stewardship and, ultimately, empowerment of the rural Indian farmer. This is what Vandana Shiva and other like-minded activists are actually interested in solving but which the government and scientific community at large is incapable of acknowledging.
Healthy soil = healthy food = healthy societies = healthy economies."
Like · Reply · 19 mins
Vincent Nunes All I have to offer is LIES?!?
Please go eat some waterhead salmon.
(In reference to the approval of AquaBounty GMO salmon for sale to the general public - they are generally twice as large as the natural variety)
Like · Reply · 17 mins
Vincent Nunes And can you mention "Mercola" another thousand
times? Geez.
(Call the skeptics names like "conspiracy theorist," "nutcase," "ranter," "kook," "crackpot," and, of course, "rumor monger." Be sure, too, to use heavily loaded verbs and adjectives when characterizing their charges and defending the "more reasonable" government and its defenders. You must then carefully avoid fair and open debate with any of the people you have thus maligned. For insurance, set up your own "skeptics" to shoot down. This is number 5 in David Martin's Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression)
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Clueless Moron As soon as you stop posting slabs of crap from his site or other sites just like his.
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Vincent Nunes And it's your goddamned business exactly how?
(What I should have written here was


YOU


ARE


NOT


THE


BOSS


OF


ME)
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Vincent Nunes Did he slap you in the mouth or something?
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Vincent Nunes Also...you've not heard of superweeds, I guess? Weeds that adapted to Roundup, and now grow so hardily that they break farming equipment.
A little hard work never hurt anyone.
Like · Reply · 59 mins
Clueless Moron And you've never heard of natural (or unnatural) selection? ANY process that kills a specific group of a species will select for members outside of that group. Organic pesticides select for "superweeds". So does the process of farming. There is no evidence that Roundup has any greater likelihood of creating "superweeds" than pretty much any other pesticide.
Like · Reply · 48 mins
Vincent Nunes Yeah...except that weeds never adapted to that level pre-Roundup.
That was pretty desperate. Can I go back to Thor?

 
And that was it.

 
I'm hoping that Thor: The Dark World will be re-broadcast this weekend, and maybe I can watch it without interruption. I met Stan "The Man" Lee, and it just tickles me whenever I see him in his various cameos with Marvel's film productions.


I figured that this would be a whole lot more entertaining to you all than another bloodlessly boring lecture...and I didn't even get to mention the terminator genes in Monsanto's seeds!


I'm hoping for some feedback.